Crux Conversatorium II
We continue the Coversatorium about Seditiosa, a subject that seems to occupy a lot of brain cells lately.
The main issues are Simonne’s hair covering her breasts sometimes and a dialogue that did not appear as it was recorded during the fundraising campaign.
About the breasts…
They all showed their beautiful breasts and look extremely beautiful and amazing. The cast was awesome, three beautiful women that work really good together!
Cruxlover24
Yes, they are awesome and beautiful women that work amazingly well together and give a lot of themselves to their work. They are proud of that. They shine on every single shot in Seditiosa, regardless of where their hair goes.
They put everything into their characters, they make them believable, totally. What you see on the screen are not the actresses, you see the characters, their inner selves, their motivations, their reactions to their circumstances. Their strength, their weakness, their capacity to suffer.
Yes really disappointed that this excellent scene wasn’t included, as such….. I found Mila’s (original) loincloth quote alluring.
Crux-Emperor Baracus X
Maybe there were other scenes that were planned, thought of, that were in the script but were never shot. That always happens, in all productions, be they expensive, no budget, extremely low budget. It happens.
To find fault about something like that in the context of the entire film is unfair, to say the least. All our films receive reviews, excellent, good, not so good, bad… we are used to that from the very first film Jac made, the one that opened at the Cannes Film Festival. But when the discussion centers on a few seconds of screen time obscuring the entire movie is kind of silly, but here we go.
There’s the video where you can see the deleted dialogue. Perhaps Jac cut those scenes because the film was getting too long.
I learned he deleted a scene where the three crucified women were talking to the three who were saved.
JDArts
Actually, the scene where Sol talks to Simonne, while Camila and Ligia are in front of Dani and Mila, was not deleted. There’s a Long Shot that was filmed on the first day the crucifixion scene was recorded, where the three women stand in front of the crucified three. The shot was not used because when it was filmed the crucified three were still wearing their loincloths and the dialogue between Sol and Simonne takes place AFTER they have been whipped, stripped and tortured with lances while agonizing on the cross. The scene was not deleted, it is there, only that one long shot was not used. The close ups of Sol, Ligia, Camila licking the victims blood, Sol and Simonne talking to each other, it is in the film as it was filmed.
Cruxlover24: Maybe we can ask the cast what happened, why they didn’t do that.
Maybe they just didn’t do it, or they didn’t want to do it at all! I’ll look for those rehearsals as I didn’t know about them.
wanttoknowmore: Both of your statements could be true. However, if you say you are going to do it when looking for support, then don’t, do not be surprised or disappointed when support for your next project is lacking.
Cruxlover24 Makes senses, maybe that’s the reason why there’s no support for this new project.
I don’t think a line of dialogue missing, which upsets one or two individuals, affects everyone; most people, 99.9% don’t even know about the supposedly missing dialogue. People who purchase the film do it on its merits, not on the perception of something missing by someone.
The lack of support for the Crucified Four project can have a good number of reasons, as many reasons as individuals unwilling to back it up. The most common, of course, is the economy, which is not doing well this year and the uncertainty of the future. People are not willing to put some money into what might not happen because they see that there’s no support for it. It’s kind of a vicious circle. People see that the campaign is stuck, they don’t contribute, the campaign continues to be stuck, people don’t contribute because the campaign is stuck… and around and around.
But people continue buying our films. Seditiosa sells and sells. I’m totally sure that if and when the Crucified Four film comes out, it will sell very well. That’s a sure thing. All we need to do is find some cash to make it happen, maybe cut some expenses, do it on the low end of the spectrum… maybe. We did that a lot in the past.
Well the movie is good, but you have problems making the nailing doesn’t look very real once they are hanging. Maybe you should work with people with expertise in special effects to make them look more realistic
Cruxlover24
I guess if we were as wealthy as Mel Gibson we could spend 25 million dollars to make a crucifixion movie, then we can hire a bunch of technicians, special effects experts and make it happen. We could also have a thousand extras, amazing locations in some Middle east country, and tremendous equipment, lots of lights, shades, platforms, cranes, cameras and sound recorders.
Unfortunately we only had around 25,000 in cash, which is what Mel Gibson probably paid for the transportation of his crew and equipment from the airport to the location.
We try our best with what we have.
A couple things –
First, if Simonne’s hair was initially place behind her shoulder’s when the crown of thorn’s was re-applied before her raising, there is NO WAY with it’s length and thickness that any head movement would have gotten that much hair forward. Not to mention it could have been shorter in the first place. The hair length and placement were IMHO deliberate calls, especially given the crux scene in Justine. which has the same hair covering affect
wanttoknowmore
During Simonne’s nailing her hair was moved back. When she was raised and taken to the post, the hair was behind her back. When the crown was placed back on her head, the hair was behind her shoulder, when the ropes were pulled to raise Yahel up her hair was still behind her shoulder, but at one point she lowered her head and some of her hair fell over her chest. The scene was not going to be stopped because of that, all the attention was on how the scene was moving and how Simonne was reacting, not where her hair was going.
As she was finally raised up the post, some hair was already over her chest. The nailing and raising were done in two separate days. On day one, the nailing of all three was done. The shooting involved a lot of takes of all three as they were raise up and set upon their crosses, that’s when the followers walked to them. The second day of the crucifixion scene, all the takes needed from the moment they are raised to their crosses until the very end.
In both days, efforts were made to have Simonne’s hair behind her shoulders, but once she was up on her cross, there was no longer control of the situation. From that point on the actions were under the dominance of the actresses, their movements, the reactions to their suffering, their agony, and to maintain the dramatic situation going, the shooting could not be interrupted. All the effort Simonne was putting into her acting, the real pain she was feeling not to mention the cold engulfing her naked body, her intense concentration on what was happening to her… none of that could be interrupted just because sometimes some hair was covering her nipple.
Second, I concur that a small budget will require cutbacks – less of a “crowd”. no true citadel, fewer props. However, we are talking about dialogue on a scene that is already staged. There is little if any cost to film that.
wanttoknowmore
The promo video with the famous dialogues was made in the studio, under full control of everything, the lights, the sound, the time, everything, and in separate days for each of the actresses. All of it with one crew, Jac, doing the camera, sound, lights, directing the actresses. He could have them repeat their lines of dialogue as many times as he felt it was necessary for that to come out ok. It was a controlled environment.
Jac has a nice Tripod with a boom for the mike, another tripod for the recorder, once everything is set he’s good to go. And that was done efficiently. It’s different in a location where there’s wind, large spaces to cover, cold wind hitting the actresses, the same wind hitting the mike.
To shoot a big scene under the conditions the cast and crew had in the location was amazingly involved and difficult, not just the dialogues, everything, have a good number of takes of the suffering of the three women, the reactions of the people watching, their dialogues, the torturing, the whipping. the different angles of every thing that is going on, and all of that in two days.
Each individual actress was set up on her respective cross, they began suffering the minute they were set up there, really suffering, there were a few hours in the day for the raising up to the post, the nailing of their feet, the stripping of their bodies with the whip… the torturing with the lance, with all the effects that it takes to do that one thing.
The actresses had their dialogues in their heads… maybe, but they were not thinking about them, they were thinking ‘when is this shit going to be over… I’m cold, I’m in pain, I’m hysterical‘
As a matter of fact, I think Jac told them to be ready for the dialogues and they responded ‘what dialogues, are you kidding?‘ If I find that in the outs, I’ll post it.
During the recording of the promo the actresses were at eye level. During the filming of the scenes they were up high on their crosses.
Some of the dialogue was recorded, specially when Simonne talks to Sol. It came out ok, considering the difficulties. It was hard to record Simonne up there, Sol was easier, she was at camera level.
It became evident that longer dialogues on the cross would be difficult if not impossible but Jac was going to do it. However there were lots of camera angles to be shot, a whole set of considerations to take care of and perhaps at one point there was no longer anytime to do those three dialogues and the willingness on the part of the actresses to do it. I can’t blame them, neither can Jac. They suffered enough for his art. But the lines of the dialogues were added to the film in post.
Lastly, I agree that filming outdoors, especially with nude scenes, in the middle of winter does make things difficult. Not just temp -wise, but fewer hours of and less intense/bright daylight. That is why the fact that you folks used Jan-Mar (after the money from the fundraising site was available) to produce the 69 movie -which was shot indoors – so aggravating. At the very least, the crux scenes should have been shot in those months.
No issue with any actress not wanting to do a full nude scene. Her call.
wanttoknowmore
69 Anneé Érotique was a project that began pre production at the beginning of 2022, long before there were any plans for Seditiosa. The actual production started in November 2022, there were already commitments made, particularly with the club where the scenes of the All Girls Rock Band were going to be shot. The club closed for the two or three nights we needed to shoot there. All on Mondays. The club was sponsoring those scenes in exchange for the publicity it was going to get. It included drinks for the cast, crew and the extras; however, Jac had a couple of bottles of Havana Club rum at hand, just in case.
There were a good number of unpaid extras that came to the shooting of those club scenes, many of them were called back as characters or extras in Seditiosa, they were paid on a daily basis in the Female Christ movie.
Here un unedited take of the song filmed at the club. That’s a long shot of the entire song.
Seditiosa was scheduled to be shot on weekends because it would take all day to shoot the scenes, including two hours of make-up work to cover Mila’s and Dani’s tattoos, most of the cast and crew had other jobs or school during the week. Simonne had a job at a hospital back then. There was plenty of time during the week to do some scenes for 69, but Jac used the time to start cutting the film instead.
The heavy rainy season in Bolivia is from January to March. Really heavy rains that cause massive damage and it’s getting worse every year. We were not going to shoot under those conditions. We began in May because the rainy season was almost over. There was some little rain, but nothing serious. But it was fall and winter so it was cold… but sunny.
Below a video of what happens on the avenue named Costanerita, which leads directly to the far away location at the Alkamari Resort. A 45 minute drive from that point. The video is from last year, but the same thing happened the year before and this year as well. Rivers overflow, houses come down hills, and it’s a mess all around, and dangerous too.
Most of the scenes in 69 had very few actors, in most cases just two, sometimes three. Most of the scenes took place in Jac’s house or his street. Very easy to handle… and even that shooting was interrupted when Seditiosa went into production.
No money from Seditiosa was spent on 69. As a matter of fact, no money was spent on 69, we had sponsors for the ‘expensive‘ scenes, like the club… well, that was the only bunch of scenes that were ‘expensive’. The biggest expenses then, apart from the crew’s taxi ride to the location, with the equipment, were the bottles of rum.
Seditiosa was shot in 9 days. Four Saturdays and Sundays and one Sunday at the end where the famous dialogue scene was supposed to be shot but wasn’t. Each of those days had a high cost. The large cast and crew that had to be fed, transported, dressed, undressed, had to drink water, a lot, and rum. A bus was rented for the extras, a minibus for the principal cast and crew and equipment. The daily cost was around 5,000 per day. Some days more, some days less, plus all the unpredictable costs, plus the costumes, the props and so on. So those 25,000 in cash we had did not cover everything. That’s usually the case with our films. We recover the rest with the sales of the film. At the end there was no more money to go back and shoot more.
69 did not cost any cash. Not daily, not monthly.
The scenes at Jac house were done without spending money, other than Jac serving refreshments, snacks, coffee and rum to the cast and the crew. A crew of two or three at the most. One assistant in the crew of three was working as an intern, to gain experience, he became second camera in Seditiosa with pay.
The refreshments, the water, the rum, the sandwiches, all that is in Jac’s budget for his daily expenses. He spends more on his cats that on a day of production at his house.
Hope this time they keep their promises and, as suggestion, to have better effects for the nailing.
Cruxlover24
Promotional materials are not promises, they are just that, promos. What we set out to do was a film with a Female Christ scenario where the main character, Yahel, would end up on the cross.
All of the sequences were worked out to tell that story following the path of the gospels, more or less. A woman, Yahel, that heals, teaches nice but controversial things about the divinity, makes the religious leaders upset, enrages the Romans, is captured, flogged, a crown of thorns is placed on her head, is sentenced to die on the cross, she has a long via crucis carrying the patibulum, she’s nailed to it, raised to the cross.
The novelty in our case is that there are no thieves with her… no… the two other women that suffer with Yahel are her loyal companions. She has a couple of followers that stand by her at the cross. She talks to one of them, she says “it’s finished” and finally… she dies.
End of the story.
That was a proposal, not a promise. We did not release a script with all the details we were planning to shoot and assuring the readers that every single word in that script would be followed faithfully no matter what. It was necessary to have a lot of control over what to do in difficult conditions.
It is extremely hard but exciting to work on a 90 minutes movie making sure all the main issues in the film are produced properly, with care and efficiency from the moment the three to be crucified walk in the first scene, go all the way to the market, and then they walk all the way back to be crucified. Maybe a minute there, a minute here, is lost in the process. Maybe a couple of pages never make it to the shooting because of many possible reasons. The important thing is the story, as conceived, is told in its entirety. There are lots and lots of dialogues at the beginning to establish the characters as they rescue a woman about to be stone to death, heal the sick, have their last meal, Yahel has her moment of solitude and doubt up in a hill, they finally go to the market, confront the priests and the romans…. get captured, whipped, sentenced to die and walk on all the way to the cross. All of it done dramatically, handsomely, powerfully… and with little time and little money. Time is money.
Watching the video where Ligia and Sol climbed onto the crosses, I dream of the moment when Sol Vargas can join us for future Crux films.
For now, that won’t be possible, as she’s away at university.
However, I haven’t lost faith in the possibility of seeing her return in a few years and starring in one or more Crux films.
JDArt
Ligia will have her time up on the cross, she already had a couple of intense experiences on the cross. There are at least two new videos with Ligia in post production, but she’s eagerly waiting for her role as the slave that gets crucified three times, one for every crime she’s accused of, runaway slave, thief, assassin. One of those crucifixions she will suffer upside down. That’s in the Crucified Four movie, of course.
Sol is another story. She’s far away, in a different city altogether, going to college, living her new life there, acquiring new interests and goals. It’s close to impossible for her to come back to make crux films. Not impossible, but very, very, very unlikely. She’s very cute, sure, and talented, and creative and she might have talked to her mom when we were doing Seditiosa, told her about the crucifixions, the three naked women whipped and crucified, like Christ, her mock crucifixion during the try outs, and maybe her mother said ‘over my death body‘. That too, is a possibility. Sol was eighteen at the time, she made sure to let Jac know that she was turning 19 in those months. She was just out high school… not exactly ready for the big time.
And finally, a link here, to a place where if you put some cash, any amount, it might help us make FOUR movies. Really. Lets see if we can brake the vicious circle.
