I have to post again…ready or not, here I come.
I think I started a nice discussion, at least with Richard, with the phrase “Life is life, fantasy is fantasy“. I uttered those words in response to comments concerning the “spanking” comments Amy posted some short time ago. But the issue is here and I must say a few things you all might find interesting… or not.
My Dear Margot. You raised the enquiry (not rhetorically, I hope!) as to whether ‘Life is life, fantasy is fantasy. Right?’ Most definitely not!
Richard
Have we not all explored our real feelings and attitudes through imagination and fantasy? What are the arts for otherwise? In the realm of BDSM and GIMP action I have determined future experiences, both for myself and others, by sharing my fantasies with those others and having them share theirs with me. And BDSM experiences are very real!
Yes, the experiences are very real, we all have our share of experiences, us more than many. But a fantasy is a fantasy, even if we play it as close to reality as we safely can. The Training of Jane movie JJ and Jane made some years ago, when they first began living together, is a good example of fantasy meeting reality. It was all very real, and yet is was still a fantasy.
Those were the years before they started making movies together and what they did, they did it for themselves. You can say that it was real, totally…
Are not the responses to any film, play or novel; all in their way works of imagination and fantasy; real? Eve Best (the English Doctor in ‘Nurse Jackie’), was interviewed on British TV this morning. She is ‘The Duchess of Malfi’ and is strangled slowly and brutally on stage. The impact on the audience is palpable, apparently. Is the reaction to her feigned, fantasy death unreal?
Richard
The reaction from our audience varies according to what makes them tick individually, but it’s real, of course. Amy told us once that one of her University professors said that all art arouses you, if it didn’t it wouldn’t be art. Something like that.
I’m sure that at the beginning of most people awareness of what turns them on, it was art … and comics, and movies… what made them fall in love with what they loved for the rest of their lives … rigth?.
In JJ’s case it was religious art… Martyrs, in my case it was Boticcelli.
In Barbazul Amy is strangled slowly and brutally… that’s the opening of the movie, and it’s impact on us, as viewers, is powerful. In Maleficarum, after all the torture Amy suffers, it is when her lover is tortured, branded with the hot iron, when we feel Amy’s anguish in a powerfull scene.
Ms. Hesketh has graphically described her fear and distress during the filming of the roasting scene in Maleficarum. Also the real pain of the whipping scene in Dead but Dreaming. Here we have real distress for the actor during the course of creating a fantasy about vampires(!) which has a real impact on the viewer. I am sure that Ms. Hesketh’s account of the impact on her of the creation of these illusions of torture will have a very real impact on the legions of Ms. Hesketh’s admirers; as do/will the films. Note also the comments of someone present at the filming of the BATS scene in Maleficarum on the Pachamama Film website
Richard
Amy goes through a lot in the movies we make, Mila too, and they do suffer real distress and yes, a good amount of real pain. I was watching the whipping scenes in Maleficarum just last night, in their new edited version, and they are really impactful. When the lash hits the skin in those scenes, I feel it. I’m sure it will have a disturbing impact on audiences here. And the burning at the stake scenes are incredibly realistic… so, yes again… the fantasy has a real impact on audiences.
When that happens, when the reality of the scenes does away with the staging of it, when the audience believes in it and feels for it, that’s when we feel that we did a great job.
As Mr. Avila has described Dead but Dreaming as an Aristotelian (Vampyre) Epic, (as a mediaevalist, I prefer the archaic spelling!), let me finish by appealing to the old fellow. In his famous discussion of the nature of tragedy he values such drama as enabling us to experience the emotions of fear, horror, terror and pity, for real. And in so doing to know aspects of what it is to be human. Given that Greek drama, in addition to any number of other distancing characteristics, was performed with the actors in masks, wherein lies the source of the reality?
Richard
Perhaps the boundary between fantasy and reality is fluid, blurred, relative, individual.
And perhaps, in the inability or unwillingness to tell the difference, lies madness! And perhaps not.
The emotions we have when we watch a movie are real, of course. The emotions we have when we watch our fantasies becoming a reality on screen are real, yes. The fantasy displayed on the screen is, in itself, a reality of sorts. But it’s not real. Amy is not burned to dead at the stake.. so.. When I say fantasy is fantasy, real life is real life I’m talking about something less relative.
The couple that indulges in spanking, whipping, etc, in their life are making their fantasies a reality. We can agree that since it’s consensual, it’s not technically GIMP. So, when a film is made, like Sirwiñakuy, or Secretary or even The Story of O, we can agree that they are films about consensual relationships, which can be real for some people and when we make films like Maleficarum, or Dead But Dreaming, or Agent X, these are films about real torture and death and these subjects are fantasies for some people and they are not real. These films enable us to experience those emotions of fear, horror, terror, pity, for real, yes, but they are just that, stories to be enjoyed one way or another.
Jac asked me to clarify what Aristotelian Epic means to him. Aristoteles defined DRAMA as a story with one central plot, such as a play, and an EPIC as a multi plot story, like The Oddessy. So, an Epic is the equivalent of a large novel while a drama is the equivalent of a play, a short story, a film. Dead But Dreaming is an Epic because it’s more than just one film and it has more than just once central plot.
Margot: Good to see Maleficarum is getting its second wind with a theatrical run. I hope you’ll keep us updated on what the audience reaction is…both good and bad. Obviously, it’s not going to please everyone with subject material like that, not to mention the graphic nudity and torture scenes. Of course, anyone who enters the theatre should have an idea in advance what to expect.
Ralphus
I’m curious why Jac felt that a different, shorter edit was necessary? Was it needed to secure the R rating? How many minutes shorter with this new version run? And are any of the “good” parts (the nasty stuff we like) going to be shortened as well?
We’re very excited and anxious about the theatrical release of Maleficarum. We’re very aware that we’ll have to face negative reactions to it and we do not fear them. The subject matter, the way it is presented, the realistic, quasi real, portrayal of the tortures, the nudity, the blood… and more, makes the film difficult to watch.
But none of that was an issue when Jac decided to alter the editing of the film. We had some feedback from our own people who felt the torture scenes were extremely long. Our original cut was directed to the people who actually like this stuff… ehem… you people… but to show the film to a larger audience we felt it would be better to make it more agile.
Jac cut out probalby two minutes of the entire movie, but what he did is to combine the scenes with faster cuts, intercuting the testimonies with the tortures more, rather than having them in blocks like it is in the movie you all saw… well, not all of you, but most of you, or at least a sizeble percentage of you. And to those who didn’t see this masterpiece I ask: WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
In the new version the testimonies are spread more across the movie and the tortures seem to be shorter but they are not. It adds to the intensity of the movie.
For some people, and I guess it is for most people, if the scenes are too long they might bore them, even if they are interesting. Not very long ago I was watching a Jess Franco movie where two women go at each other for a very, very long time … booooooring.
After the 100tn lash they might lash out “enough already!”…
The version we showed to the Cinemateca and the people that rated the movie, is the original version. The new version is coming out for the release of the movie, next week, and it’s going to be in blue ray. We’ll see how it works.
Margot: Ooh, yeah, vampires…one of my favorite themes. I’m glad you folks are getting into the horror genre, but putting a different spin on the vampyr legends. Looking forward to it.
YikYakker
You also wrote: …life is life, fantasy is fantasy. Right? Absolutely.
Everyone loves vampires, right? They are the most popular anti-heroes in the universe we know. Our vampires are somewhat different than the more traditional ones. We’re taking lots of creative freedoms with this one. They are not killed by the sun, just weaken, for instance and they have their strengths and their weakness… that makes our female vampires very resistant to torture. They can suffer for ages and ages if properly nailed.
Our vampires are very strong at night but if they are taken by surprise they can be overcome. They love blood … a lot, it gives them their power, but they can enjoy a good dry martini and eat a good stake… and pizza. They don’t fly, nor they turn into bats, but they can move very fast.
Our vampires have a clear beginning and they don’t have an ending. They can live forever if we let them. They are not into Goth and they don’t like black nails. They think emos are pussys and should be disposed of. They prefer good clasical music, of course and good sex is good sex for them.
Margot said: “…some feedback won’t make me feel bad. wink wink.”
D. Santorum
Okay then. I went to your website thinking I might take advantage of the 20% off sale. Once there, I got suckered into paying full price for both Martyr and Sirwinakuy.
I am so gullible.
We have excellent sales people at our stores, they can make you buy anything and everything and sometimes all at once. The 20% off is for most of the catalogue but not for ALL of our catalogue. Just a clarification.
It’s a good time to complete that Red Feline Collection that’s missing some very important movies.
That’s all folks… Margot
